156 replies to this topic

[Mytchh]

Today I called Motorola about an issue with an app called SIM Toolkit that will randomly appear and disappear in my app drawer. Many people have noticed this issue with the Droid RAZR, but that's beside the point.

Motorola has the ability to check if your phone is rooted. The rep I was talking to pulled up my information and said that my phone is showing "ROOT STATUS" Basically if you have a Motorola device, they know whether or not your phone has been rooted. He would not inform me of how they are able to determine if the phone is rooted, but he told me that they know if we have a customized operating system.

If you are planning on being able to send your device to get fixed in the future, or get any support from Motorola, I suggest you do not root your device. Simply unrooting your phone then sending it in to get fixed will not work. They will already know prior to that if your phone is rooted. Just thought I'd let you guys know that.

My conversation with a rep on chat about the SIM Toolkit application:

Spoiler

Brenda: Hi, my name is Brenda. How may I help you?
Me: Hi. I have a question about an app that has been appearing in my app drawer.
Brenda: I'll be happy to assist you on that.
Brenda: What is the model of your phone and who is your service provider?
Me: The Droid RAZR from Verizon.
Brenda: Can I have the HEX/MEID number and the system version of the phone?
Me: Where can I find the HEX number?
Brenda: Please go to the dialer then type in *#06# for the HEX number.
Brenda: System version is under Settings then About phone.
Me: My HEX is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Me: System Version is 6.11.748.XT912.Verizon.US
Brenda: Thank you.
Brenda: What is the app that has been appearing in your app drawer?
Me: It is called SIM Toolkit.
Brenda: Let me check that in our system. One moment, please.
Me: Okay.
Brenda: Thank you for holding, my apologies for the delay.
Brenda: Do you have a SIM card on the phone?
Me: Yes,
Brenda: Did you try to access that apps?
Me: Yes. It doesn't open.
Brenda: Is it the SIM card from Verizon?
Me: Yes.
Brenda: Can you please power off and on the phone then remove and re insert the SIM card?
Me: Sure. One moment.
Me: Alright. It's rebooted.
Brenda: Have you removed and re insert the SIM card?
Me: Yes.
Brenda: Okay. Then try to access again and check if you can open it.
Me: The app is gone now. Some days it will be there and some days it won't.
Brenda: Did you make sure that the SIM card is inserted properly?
Me: Yes. I can make calls and send text messaes.
Me: messages.
Brenda: Can you please try to contact Verizon in regard with this?
Me: Do you know if the application has been installed by Motorola or Verizon?
Brenda: It's a preloaded apps on the phone.
Brenda: Can you please try the clear data of the apps under Settings?
Me: I can't. The option to clear data is not clickable.
Brenda: Okay.
Brenda: Can you please ask assistance from Verizon regarding that?
Brenda: You should be able to open that apps since you have a SIM card on the phone.
Brenda: Are you sure that it's the SIM card not the SD card?
Me: Yes. I'm positive. What does the app do? It will just randomly appear in my app drawer then disappear.
Brenda: It should not be.
Brenda: So you have the SD card and SIM card on the phone?
Me: Yes.
Brenda: Can you please power off and on the phone then check if the apps re appear?
Me: Sure. One moment.
Me: It's not there.
Brenda: Are you sure?
Me: Positive. When it is there it says SIM Toolkit and has a little picture of a SIM card above it. It is not there.
Brenda: It's beside the Settings apps, right?
Me: When it's there, yes.
Brenda: It should be there. Can you please remove then re insert again the SIM card?
Me: Sure. Should I power off my phone first?
Brenda: Yes, please.
Me: I've already turned it off, removed the SIM card, reinserted it, and powered on my phone.
Brenda: Is it still the same?
Me: Yep. The app doesn't show up. In my settings it also says the app is 0.00 B in size.
Brenda: Can you please try to reset the phone to the factory settings?
Me: I'm not sure I want to do lose everything on my phone. I'm just wondering what this app does and why it disappears randomly.
Brenda: It should not be disappear since it's a preloaded apps even if you don't have a SIM card on the phone.
Me: It's an app that Motorola preloaded I believe from what I've read, because it's also installed on other phones that are not on Verizon.
Me: I was also reading some topics on the Motorola Support forums.

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Me: And here.

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Brenda: Okay. Let me escalate this to Level 2 support for further assistance.
Brenda: Can I have your cellphone number?
Me: Sure. It's XXXXXXXXXX Thanks.
Brenda: Thank you. One moment, please.
Brenda: Thank you for holding, my apologies for the delay.
Me: No problem.
Brenda: Mytch, in order to provide you with the best possible support for this type of question, we will need to ask you to call our call center directly. You will not have to repeat any troubleshooting steps that we have just done as I will be saving this entire conversation and all you will have to do is dial 800-734-5870 and say "Technical Support" or press 2. When prompted, please enter your 10 digit cell phone number that you provided me earlier in our chat. You will then be directly routed to one of our Level 2 Technical Support Specialists. Your reference number for this chat is 120123-000358. Our Level 2 agents are available M-F from 7am-10pm CST and on Sat. & Sun. from 8am-5pm CST.

[Tmc363]

Knew it would happen sooner or later google already has the ability on their videos to determine root and refuse us the ability to watch them while rooted. Im sure if moto is now using this technology then vzw and other service providers will have access soon to see if one has been rooted at any point. This will eliminate the returns from people who brick their phones and cant fix them so they take them back to vzw. I am not a fan of steve jobs oops I mean moto monitoring my phone but what other choices are there it seems every manufacturer has something theyre monitoring. Thanks for the info I too have wondered what that sim toolkit is guess theyve caught me rooted many times.

[Mytchh]

Knew it would happen sooner or later google already has the ability on their videos to determine root and refuse us the ability to watch them while rooted. Im sure if moto is now using this technology then vzw and other service providers will have access soon to see if one has been rooted at any point. This will eliminate the returns from people who brick their phones and cant fix them so they take them back to vzw. I am not a fan of steve jobs oops I mean moto monitoring my phone but what other choices are there it seems every manufacturer has something theyre monitoring. Thanks for the info I too have wondered what that sim toolkit is guess theyve caught me rooted many times.

I tried my hardest for him to tell me how they could tell if we were rooted, but he said he didn't have any information about it. They're all like robots.

[Mytchh]

Well, not surprising... He sure won't give you the information to find a workaround, would he?

RAZR ROCKS!

Nope. This guy pretty much knew nothing. Just read from the script.

[raijin32]

Would freezing Sim Tool in TI prevent them from being able to montitor whether the phone's been rooted?

[pbaur]

As an add-on info: They DO know and take advantage of it, as you stated with respect to videos. The moment I started the first root enabled app, my apps in the market stopped showing. It's known from several different phones/roms, but it was informative to see the reaction in that very moment. I can reflash and get my apps again, but again as soon as root kicks in, they're gone again.

RAZR ROCKS!

[Mytchh]

Would freezing Sim Tool in TI prevent them from being able to montitor whether the phone's been rooted?

I am not sure if SIM Toolkit is the app responsible for determining root or not. From what I know the app is used by the service provider to carry out some functions that they desire.

[raijin32]

I'm sure it's a matter of time before someone figues out a way to work around this or block it altogether but still....

Ah well. I'm rooted and enjoying my Razr without Verizon's fingerprints all over my app drawer. No going back now.

Thanks for the heads up Mytchh!

[Mytchh]

I'm sure it's a matter of time before someone figues out a way to work around this or block it altogether but still....

Ah well. I'm rooted and enjoying my Razr without Verizon's fingerprints all over my app drawer. No going back now.

Thanks for the heads up Mytchh!

He did offer me to send my phone in, so they could evaluate it and flash it though. I'm guessing if your phone gets bricked and they see you've been rooted then they probably won't fix it. Hopefully we can figure out how to root without letting Motorola knowing. It seems that they're cracking down a little.

[raijin32]

My phone's insured so I guess if it bricks the only option I have at this point is to report it stolen and get a new one. Quite the inconvenience and a pain in the a$$ but if this is the way they want to play it not much else that can be done.

[Mytchh]

My phone's insured so I guess if it bricks the only option I have at this point is to report it stolen and get a new one. Quite the inconvenience and a pain in the a$$ but if this is the way they want to play it not much else that can be done.

All they do if it is bricked is reflash it, which we can do from our own computers. No reason to send in for bricks anymore really, but they may hold the fact that you rooted against you if you need a repair.

[raijin32]

Just revealed what a noob I am didn't I? LOL!!

But yeah. I guess if they'll deny the warranty that may be our only option.

[Mytchh]

Just revealed what a noob I am didn't I? LOL!!

But yeah. I guess if they'll deny the warranty that may be our only option.

Oh well. We all know rooting voids our warranty for sure now. We just need to figure out how to get around them detecting root.. hmm.

[wyld]

I looked thruogh root explorer in system/apps i couldn't find SIM toolkit anywhere. I am on the 2.3.6 .173 leaked update.

[Tmc363]

I'm frustrated just reading it I can only imagine your temper level

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[raijin32]

Problem would be not only preventing them from detecting root but also wiping out any record they might have of how many times we've rooted.

[shizumie]

Its a shame. The return policy has been so abused by many people that soon we will all be screwed. There will come a time that you have a genuine hardware problem, but because of root access you will be sol. It is a shame but in a sense the community has shot itself in the foot. We all know there are many people who don't know what they are doing, brick or fubar phone and in a panic send it in, instead of letting the community do its job. But ah well. Im sure there will be a work around to block their prying eyes soon enough.

sliced by my Razr on Tapatalk

[Mytchh]

I looked thruogh root explorer in system/apps i couldn't find SIM toolkit anywhere. I am on the 2.3.6 .173 leaked update.

It's called SimManager.apk. I'm on 6.11.748.XT912.Verizon.US. Found it in system/app. In the Applications settings it shows that it's 0.00 B in size, but in Root Explorer it says 48.75 K...

EDIT: Also found stk.apk. 20.48 K in size. This seems to be the application that appears in our drawer.

[Droid2drummer]

Hey guys. I have the same app disappearing and we have seen this topic a few times. Rooted or not. I'm not at the moment. This device never was and still does the same thing. However they have been able to detect root for some time. Even when I had my D2 they knew. They never said but they have known this way before the Razr. Just an fyi to the whole sim card app being a root detection app. Their knowledge is way beyond the apps installed in fact I believe when they look at the hex they can check and tell by typing it in and pinging or something to that effect.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Mytchh]

Hey guys. I have the same app disappearing and we have seen this topic a few times. Rooted or not. I'm not at the moment. This device never was and still does the same thing. However they have been able to detect root for some time. Even when I had my D2 they knew. They never said but they have known this way before the Razr. Just an fyi to the whole sim card app being a root detection app. Their knowledge is way beyond the apps installed in fact I believe when they look at the hex they can check and tell by typing it in and pinging or something to that effect.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

I did have to provide my HEX number to the chat agent. I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with it though.

[Droid2drummer]

I did have to provide my HEX number to the chat agent. I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with it though.

I wouldn't worry with it brother. Nothing is any different to the best of my knowledge ...They do not like tether. ...that's all they are really concerned about with root users. And by the way. When or if you call the techs from your mobile, they can get your hex...lol they knew mine once on a gs. No worries bro. Your good. Just use your best judgement and enjoy your phone. Do not let them worry you. You have a great device. If you want to root. Root. I will and do. And will do always. Lol There are many discussions about it in xda and other sites. But like I said. Dont worry about it. Enjoy!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Mytchh]

I wouldn't worry with it brother. Nothing is any different to the best of my knowledge ...They do not like tether. ...that's all they are really concerned about with root users. And by the way. When or if you call the techs from your mobile, they can get your hex...lol they knew mine once on a gs. No worries bro. Your good. Just use your best judgement and enjoy your phone. Do not let them worry you. You have a great device. If you want to root. Root. I will and do. And will do always. Lol There are many discussions about it in xda and other sites. But like I said. Dont worry about it. Enjoy!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Well I've had my phone rooted for a long time. As well as my OG Droid forever. I'm just hoping that if I were to have a hardware failure that they would deny my warranty due to the history of root.

[Kimo91]

I find that weird cause before I rooted my Razr that SIM toolkit would pop up from time to time and now that I'm rooted I've only seen it pop up twice now. If it is true that they're doing this to check root, is that legal to do?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Xparent Red Tapatalk

[mopar57]

I find that weird cause before I rooted my Razr that SIM toolkit would pop up from time to time and now that I'm rooted I've only seen it pop up twice now. If it is true that they're doing this to check root, is that legal to do?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Xparent Red Tapatalk

yes its legal. Motorola is providing a service (warranty) so they have to right to see if their device is working properly. Im sure the code keeps track of "phone problems" in which if something is wrong or out of place they receive a message. Since is now legal to root phones, moto has to have another way to scare people. Moto is still a business and main concern is making money.

[DirtyDroidX]

Well I stopped reading when I seen you gave your mein. When you do this you are granting them to remote access your phone.

On another note, legally they are not aloud to share thus information with VZW. So if your device gets lost ,stolen
Or dropped in your morning coffee, you van still claim the warranty replacement, that you pay for every month if you catch my drift
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[DirtyDroidX]

Also a little tid bit for you your sim card hold different information. For example if you look at your boot sequence on the phone it says at the end com.motorola.simauth.orange.jar now if you look in your system/res folder that jar file is no where to be found. That's because your phone pulls data in the boot sequence. This is a reason we have problems fully deodexing are system.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[DroidRazrAZ]

ok.. some of you already know that had six bionic replacements, before they placed me in razr.. Since then I have had 3 razrs. One had bad Vol buttons, another bad hdmi port, last one stopped holding charge. I pay the 1.99 extended warranty.. Every one of them rooted, restored, and received my "thank you for returning your defective devIce" text. I don't see the issued here. As long as its a defective device they don't care. As stated before.. is there even a truly bricked device out there even? DroidRzr.com can un-brick ya!

Yes the dumb Sim toolkit is on .748, but yet to see it on .173.

When I force close it.. I can see my data drop simultaneously.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[con5tant]

my local Verizon store (corporate store) encourages people to root their phones
all the Android phones that they have displayed are also rooted

[mattlgroff]

my local Verizon store (corporate store) encourages people to root their phones
all the Android phones that they have displayed are also rooted

I know this because I go to the same store!

[SoLongSidekick]

I know this because I go to the same store!

Which store Matt? I have been to the one on Grossmont center and Clantee and never noticed.

Also, i have seen the Sim kit app on 173.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk