221 replies to this topic

[jpmoo]

I've never heard of the Heritage foundation doing anything but presenting facts.

LMAO! Really? Do some research on 'em.

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[brewzer]

Laugh all you want. I don't find anything conclusive, only opinion from left wing think tanks. Just remember Fox news would not have fantastic ratings if the MSM were not feeding the american people a diet of left wing nonsense.

[chiahead52]

this thread is just showing how easily people are manipulated into spreading lies. Please close this down before it gets too far. The Heritage foundation is absolutely a far right wing organization along with Fox anything. Not that it makes any difference because its obvious people will believe what they want no matter if its supported with facts or not.

[brewzer]

Yes it shows how easily people believe ABC NBC CNN and MSLSD. They do not tell the truth. Granted Fox news goes off the Deep end at times for ratings. Typical liberals can't stand that there's an opposing view and it may be valid. They are living in Trumans world and the democrat party is Christo. So shut it down because its not my opinion.
If you don't like the thread don't read it. Its called choice, and its good.

[King Howie]

Frankly, I read several sources daily. What I have learned is liberal sites tend to push Keynesian economics. I don't need Heritage or Fox News to know Keynes was an utter idiot.

[brewzer]

Well we agree! I get news from many sources as well. Why then has this president been following the Keynesian model by and large but yet you hang on? Cutting through all the BS, the overriding problem is spending. Nothing else is more controllable and can do more harm than reckless spending.

[King Howie]

What do you mean by "yet you hang on"?
Deficits occur when spending exceeds revenue.

I couldn't agree more that the fundamental problem is spending. However, the spending is a direct result of people expecting government to provide them with things. Spending must be brought back to constitutional limits.

However, our government takes in about 17% or so of GDP. So when GDP grows, so does revenue. Likewise, when GDP shrinks, so does revenue.

Lower tax rates increase GDP, while higher tax rates decrease GDP.

So when the current tax rates expire in January, income taxes will increase for everyone earning income. Then the economy will begin to shrink even more, and government will see larger deficits.

Keeping tax rates low and curbing spending (including Obamacare) is the only thing that will truly stimulate the economy

[chiahead52]

u 2 need to get a room...the funny thing is your arguing with each other but you feel the same way!!!! lol

[brewzer]

My apologies. I attributed something said in a prior post to you and that was my error. We are on the same page here. Your last post was simply stated and spot on. Nice. You would enjoy the Jason Lewis show.

[King Howie]

I didn't think I was arguing with anyone. Just taking advantage of a few teachable moments.

And I don't believe I've ever heard of Jason Lewis

[brewzer]

He's more of a libertarian leaning republican and he's got a deep knowledge of economics and frequently uses his show for teachable moments. He's nationally syndicated now. Free education if you can last through the commercials.

[llawen]

wow, I did not expect this much traffic across this thread. I just am trying to get facts out to people about Obama Care. These are facts. You can do some research and you will find that they are indeed simple facts.
1) if you make 10k-37k you will be taxed $695, 37k-50k you will be taxed $1000. So, when you file your taxes you will be starting in the in the negative.
2) Obama Care is a job killer. Why? If a company has less than 50 employees, they are not required to provide health insurance plans for them. So, a company that has 65 employees will cut jobs to get under the 50 employees mark. So that Obama care will not regulate them. We will see tens of thousands laid off.
3) Obama care is going to cause doctors to stop accepting Medicare. Because the government is regulating what they can charge. So, they will simply stop accepting it. This comes from a poll . A very large number said they would stop accepting it.
4) Obama Care is going to cost over a trillion dollars. And the middle class is going to be taxed to the bone to pay for it. Starting with stealing our income tax returns.
5) IRS can hit you $695 or $1000 per person in your household. Up to 3 people.
6) this tax will rise every year to the rate of inflation.



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[welsalex]

wow, I did not expect this much traffic across this thread. I just am trying to get facts out to people about Obama Care. These are facts. You can do some research and you will find that they are indeed simple facts.
1) if you make 10k-37k you will be taxed $695, 37k-50k you will be taxed $1000. So, when you file your taxes you will be starting in the in the negative.
2) Obama Care is a job killer. Why? If a company has less than 50 employees, they are not required to provide health insurance plans for them. So, a company that has 65 employees will cut jobs to get under the 50 employees mark. So that Obama care will not regulate them. We will see tens of thousands laid off.
3) Obama care is going to cause doctors to stop accepting Medicare. Because the government is regulating what they can charge. So, they will simply stop accepting it. This comes from a poll . A very large number said they would stop accepting it.
4) Obama Care is going to cost over a trillion dollars. And the middle class is going to be taxed to the bone to pay for it. Starting with stealing our income tax returns.
5) IRS can hit you $695 or $1000 per person in your household. Up to 3 people.
6) this tax will rise every year to the rate of inflation.



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Your facts are only advocating the costs of obamacare, nothing said about what the benefits are. I see what you did there.....

[brewzer]

I just found out today full time employees will be defined as 30 hours a week.

[llawen]

I would love to know the benefits that would be worthy of all those cons.

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[brewzer]

The benefits are fewer doctors, longer lines, denial of care for older people. And yes the death panels are part of the bill, i know, I read it. If you don't believe me read about the system in the uk. Many people are going private.

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[welsalex]

Obamacare Pros

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office lists the advantages of Obamacare:

• The Act was designed to reduce overall health care costs by making services available to the 32 million who currently can't get insurance. They often use a hospital emergency room as their primary care physician, increasing costs for everyone. This starts in 2014.
• For people who can't afford health insurance, the Federal government will pay the states to add them to Medicaid. The income requirement is expanded up to 133% of the

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  - roughly $29,000 for a family of four.
• Those who don't qualify for the expanded Medicaid will receive tax credits if their income is below 400% of the poverty level ($88,000 for a family of four). States will be required to set up insurance exchanges to make it easier to shop for private health insurance coverage.
• Insurance companies cannot deny children coverage for pre-existing conditions. This benefit applies to everyone in 2014. Insurance companies can no longer drop anyone from coverage once they get sick. If a company denies someone coverage, that person can go to an external appeals process.
• Parents can put their children up to age 26 on their health insurance plans. This will bring more profit for health insurance companies, since they will receive more premiums without higher costs for these healthier individuals. As of 2012, more than three million previously uninsured young people were added. (Source:

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  )
• The Medicare "donut hole" gap in coverage will be eliminated by 2020.
• People with existing health insurance will keep it. Businesses prefer to offer a tax-free benefit like health insurance to attract good workers. That won't change under Obamacare.
• Obamacare does not apply to businesses with less than 50 employees. Larger businesses are required to offer health insurance, but receive tax credits to help employees pay premiums. In 2014, the tax credit increases to 50%.
• The Act will lower the budget deficit by $143 billion over the next 10 years by raising some taxes and shifting more cost burdens. (Source: CBO

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  ; Wall Street Journal,

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  , June 28, 2012; NPR,

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  , June 27, 2012)

Obamacare Cons

The CBO (and other non-partisan groups, as cited below) also list some disadvantages of the Act.

• Increased coverage may actually raise health care costs. That's because many people will receive preventative care and testing who, fortunately, find out they didn't have that critical illness. However, the CBO found that additional testing, such as cancer screening and cholesterol tests, will lead to higher net medical spending. (Source: CBO,

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  , August 7, 2009)
• Those who don't purchase insurance, and don't qualify for Medicaid or

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  , will be assessed a tax of $95 (or 1% of income, whichever is higher) in 2014. It increases to $325 (or 2% of income) in 2015, and $695 (or 2.5% of income) in 2016. (Find out how to calculate it in

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  )
• About 4 million people, or 1.2% of the population, will wind up paying the tax rather than purchase health insurance. The CBO estimates this will total $54 billion.(Source: Washington Post Factchecker,

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  , July 6, 2012)
• Taxes will be raised on one million individuals with annual incomes above a threshold of $200,000 and four million couples filing jointly with incomes in excess of $250,000. They would pay a total of 2.35% (up from 1.45%) Medicare taxes on income above the threshold. In addition, they will pay an additional 3.8% Medicare taxes. This would apply to the lesser of income from dividends, capital gains, rent and royalties or income above the threshold. (Source: Smart Money,

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  , June 28, 2012)
• Pharmaceutical companies will pay an extra $84.8 billion in fees over the next ten years to pay for closing the "donut hole" in Medicare Part D. This could raise drug costs if they pass this onto consumers.
• In 2018, insurance companies will be assessed a 40% excise tax on "Cadillac" health plans. These are plans with annual premiums exceeding $10,200 for individuals or $27,500 for families. Many of these plans are for people in high-risk pools, such as older workers or union workers in high-risk jobs. (Source: Kaiser,

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  , March 18, 2010)
• In 2013, medical-device manufacturers and importers will pay a 2.3% excise tax. Indoor tanning services already pay a 10% excise tax. This could discourage those businesses from hiring new employees.
• Between 3-5 million people could lose their company-sponsored health care plans. Many businesses will find it more cost-effective to pay the penalty and let their employees purchase their own insurance plans on the exchanges. Other small businesses might find they can get a better plan through the state-run exchanges. (Source: CBO,

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  , March 15, 2012)
• There are 30.1 million people who currently buy their own private health insurance. Many of them may need to get another plan if their insurance doesn't meet the minimum standards -- which haven't yet been established. (Source: Factcheck.org,

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  , June 28, 2012)
• In 2014, families can only deduct medical expenses that exceed 10% of income. Today, they can deduct expenses that exceed 7.5% of income.

Source:

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[brewzer]

There will be fewer doctors, longer lines, denial of care for older people. And yes the death panels are part of the bill, i know, I read it. If you don't believe me read about the system in the uk. Many people are going private.

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[Alex.Abraham]

Judging by the posts in this forum it seems like we have a few strong democrats but they are greatly outnumbered by the Republicans in the forum. After looking at what friends, important people in the world, and the general population have tweeted about the election it looked like Obama was in the lead and I was sure that looking at this thread would reveal just that (thank god I was wrong )

Then I got to thinking. What if android users lean Republican and iPhone users lean democrat? At first I thought it was a crazy idea (why would the phone you buy make a difference?) But then I thought about it some more. Democrats seem to like the idea of big government and they believe it will strengthen the economy. Republicans on the other hand like the idea of minimal government involvement and letting the citizens run the country. Android is known for being more open source than iPhone and letting each company/individual decide how the phone operates. iPhone is considered more closed and has a "locked down" operating system. One could say that apple is essentially like big government where they control how the product is used and you take it for what it is. Android could be like small government where they create the basis for a product and other companies/devs (citizens) decide how it should be used. Google doesn't even make their own hardware which shows that it is really up to third parties to make a great product.

I am not saying this is so clear cut and I honestly have a rudimentary understanding of politics but I thought it was an interesting idea

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[greek6486]

Heres a question, how many Liberals will commit suicide when they're God Obama is defeated in November?