20 replies to this topic

[jw0914]

Most whom are having issues within Firmware, Utility, Root, and Software threads aren't reading the instructions. This isn't new of course, and thankfully members who don't read have more patient people than I to help them because it irritates me to the core when people are given instructions, don't follow them, then say it doesn't work or they can't get it to work. I commend members and Devs who have the patience, because that's a virtue I don't possess.

Everyone who's been a member of any forum knows what's written above is a fact. Its not about being new to something and not having much knowledge about the subject. Its about consciously making a choice to believe you know more than the people whom designed whatever you're using and not read/follow the directions, then when you screw something up, you expect someone to help you because of a conscious choice you made that you knew was wrong and knew would more likely than not end up in failure. Most Devs I've spoken to talk about it, and the point needs to be made that people need to read and follow the directions given... But to simply ignore the problem because its not politically correct is ignorant in and of itself.

I've never advocated not helping someone; as I said before, I commend those that have the patience in this specific area in which I do not. But simply helping those that obviously didn't read or follow the directions, without mentioning that reading and following directions set forth in the OP are vitally important, is a disservice to all, amateurs and experts alike. It makes it okay for people to forego reading because they know there's no consequence for not doing something correctly, thereby wasting both their time and the members whom have to help them (even worse, wasting the time of members who follow the instructions, need help, then have to sift through the tens or hundreds of posts that wouldn't be there if whomever didn't read/follow directions had). Its about respect for others. Yes, we all make mistakes. Yes, I've made tons of them with my phone, bricked it, and bricked it again, even misread things from time to time... we all make mistakes and learn from them. But this isn't what repeatedly, consistently continues to happen... people consciously make the choice simply not to read, and even worse not follow, the directions given. They do it with no constructive criticism from other members, moderators, or veteran members whom are Devs; instead, no one says anything, no one holds them accountable, thus they continue not to read.

Simply saying take it down a notch or get back on topic because what's being said in a thread isn't politically correct and is addressing a real issue doesn't help solve this massive problem. It excuses the behavior of those that do it, thus reinforcing their behavior. Take Matt's Droid Razr Utility for instance... majority of posts, more than 50% I'd estimate, are dedicated to people not reading the OP, not reading the instructions, nor following them.. Trying to sift through the tens of pages of posts for legitimate information that's helpful to members with actual problems, not problems they created for themselves by not reading, is insane and ridiculous.

The more members that mention to users they help the importance of reading and following the directions in the OP and why, the less this will occur. It appears that hardly anyone is willing to do this because it's not politically correct. It can be worded in very respectful, polite, non-offending ways. You don't have to personalize it to them, it can be said in a generalized sense, but refusing to address it doesn't help anyone, and hurts everyone.

[tucstwo]

All I can say is that you sir, might as well be the Howard Stern of this forum. You are the one person who says stuff that many of us think, but are afraid to say. Or are afraid that if we do say it, it will be taken the wrong way and we will look like "a-holes".

Granted, I do not condone the whole "USE THE SEARCH BUTTON" attitude that many communities have come to embrace. This place is NOT like that. We are a family of people who get enjoyment out of helping one another, regardless how noobish the question is. But you do have a point sir, those who refuse to even read the original post more than once (or not at all) and then have problems and expect others to hold their hand every step of the way out of their problems are just lazy.

I'm not sure why you're venting this out at this moment, and it's not really a person looking for help, so for the mean time, I need to move this to the "Off topic" area, as it's not really phone related, it's more societal related. But Amen.

People need to slow down, stop being impatient, stop gettin' all excited and READ. That's all I can say. This is in NO WAY meant to be a bash on the new guy who is ignorant to the forum or the software. It's addressed to people as a whole. Please, just take the time to read the directions from people who know more than you. You might just learn something.

[jw0914]

All I can say is that you sir, might as well be the Howard Stern of this forum. You are the one person who says stuff that many of us think, but are afraid to say. Or are afraid that if we do say it, it will be taken the wrong way and we will look like "a-holes".

Granted, I do not condone the whole "USE THE SEARCH BUTTON" attitude that many communities have come to embrace. This place is NOT like that. We are a family of people who get enjoyment out of helping one another, regardless how noobish the question is. But you do have a point sir, those who refuse to even read the original post more than once (or not at all) and then have problems and expect others to hold their hand every step of the way out of their problems are just lazy.

I'm not sure why you're venting this out at this moment, and it's not really a person looking for help, so for the mean time, I need to move this to the "Off topic" area, as it's not really phone related, it's more societal related. But Amen.

People need to slow down, stop being impatient, stop gettin' all excited and READ. That's all I can say. This is in NO WAY meant to be a bash on the new guy who is ignorant to the forum or the software. It's addressed to people as a whole. Please, just take the time to read the directions from people who know more than you. You might just learn something.

I wholly agree, the search function attitude isn't the right approach. Most forums are set up different so the way you're used to searching on one may not work in another, or you may be new to forums and just not know how to use search. I do hope my post didn't come across in such a manner that a reader assumes that's what's implied, as its not.

My only issue is people not reading the OP and the instructions given as I see it almost every thread I post in. I wasn't really venting, so much as I thought it needed to be said. Whenever I say it in a shortened version in a thread, I'm told to get back on topic, I'm out of line, or people take it as I'm being rude to people whom may not have that much expertise (which I'm not at all...I was a beginner too at one point, bricked my phones more times than I can remember, got scared, freaked out a bit, and got help from other members as well).

I didn't really know where I should post it and thought the Help thread was the best bet. Where do I find the off topic thread at? (I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd be able to see the categories in the upper left hand corner). Thanks =]

[The Persuader]

Most whom are having issues within Firmware, Utility, Root, and Software threads aren't reading the instructions. This isn't new of course, and thankfully members who don't read have more patient people than I to help them because it irritates me to the core when people are given instructions, don't follow them, then say it doesn't work or they can't get it to work. I commend members and Devs who have the patience, because that's a virtue I don't possess.

Everyone who's been a member of any forum knows what's written above is a fact. Its not about being new to something and not having much knowledge about the subject. Its about consciously making a choice to believe you know more than the people whom designed whatever you're using and not read/follow the directions, then when you screw something up, you expect someone to help you because of a conscious choice you made that you knew was wrong and knew would more likely than not end up in failure. Most Devs I've spoken to talk about it, and the point needs to be made that people need to read and follow the directions given... But to simply ignore the problem because its not politically correct is ignorant in and of itself.

I've never advocated not helping someone; as I said before, I commend those that have the patience in this specific area in which I do not. But simply helping those that obviously didn't read or follow the directions, without mentioning that reading and following directions set forth in the OP are vitally important, is a disservice to all, amateurs and experts alike. It makes it okay for people to forego reading because they know there's no consequence for not doing something correctly, thereby wasting both their time and the members whom have to help them (even worse, wasting the time of members who follow the instructions, need help, then have to sift through the tens or hundreds of posts that wouldn't be there if whomever didn't read/follow directions had). Its about respect for others. Yes, we all make mistakes. Yes, I've made tons of them with my phone, bricked it, and bricked it again, even misread things from time to time... we all make mistakes and learn from them. But this isn't what repeatedly, consistently continues to happen... people consciously make the choice simply not to read, and even worse not follow, the directions given. They do it with no constructive criticism from other members, moderators, or veteran members whom are Devs; instead, no one says anything, no one holds them accountable, thus they continue not to read.

Simply saying take it down a notch or get back on topic because what's being said in a thread isn't politically correct and is addressing a real issue doesn't help solve this massive problem. It excuses the behavior of those that do it, thus reinforcing their behavior. Take Matt's Droid Razr Utility for instance... majority of posts, more than 50% I'd estimate, are dedicated to people not reading the OP, not reading the instructions, nor following them.. Trying to sift through the tens of pages of posts for legitimate information that's helpful to members with actual problems, not problems they created for themselves by not reading, is insane and ridiculous.

The more members that mention to users they help the importance of reading and following the directions in the OP and why, the less this will occur. It appears that hardly anyone is willing to do this because it's not politically correct. It can be worded in very respectful, polite, non-offending ways. You don't have to personalize it to them, it can be said in a generalized sense, but refusing to address it doesn't help anyone, and hurts everyone.

JW...What were you thinking my friend...

Wow!!!!

NO Comment...but to say we Don't READ before making any Major changes to Our Phones is NOT Correct...Can the process be confusing, maybe misunderstood Yes, I would have to Challange your comment about NOT READING...

If No ones wants to help me its Okay, but I knew that ahead of time before coming into this Forum...but that said, I have not experienced that behavior here so far on this forum...

Just thinking out Loud Sparky...LOL...

Its Bubba

[tucstwo]

I wholly agree, the search function attitude isn't the right approach. Most forums are set up different so the way you're used to searching on one may not work in another, or you may be new to forums and just not know how to use search. I do hope my post didn't come across in such a manner that a reader assumes that's what's implied, as its not.

My only issue is people not reading the OP and the instructions given as I see it almost every thread I post in. I wasn't really venting, so much as I thought it needed to be said. Whenever I say it in a shortened version in a thread, I'm told to get back on topic, I'm out of line, or people take it as I'm being rude to people whom may not have that much expertise (which I'm not at all...I was a beginner too at one point, bricked my phones more times than I can remember, got scared, freaked out a bit, and got help from other members as well).

I didn't really know where I should post it and thought the Help thread was the best bet. Where do I find the off topic thread at? (I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd be able to see the categories in the upper left hand corner). Thanks =]

Just FYI "Help" is a forum designed for people who's phones are black screening and they are LOST as hell. Off Topic: On Tapatalk Category View>Lounge>Off-Topic Discussion. This is an area that applies to the ENTIRE forum and NOT just Razrs and many people may see it. It's not that this thread has NO topic. It's just that its a GENERAL discussion that can be applied to all devices.

[tucstwo]

JW...What were you thinking my friend...

Wow!!!!

NO Comment...but to say we Don't READ before making any Major changes to Our Phones is NOT Correct...Can the process being confusing, maybe misunderstood Yes, I would have to Challange...

If No ones wants to help me is Okay, but I knew that ahead of time coming into this Forum...but that said, I have not experienced that behavior here on this forum...

Just thinking out Loud Sparky...LOL...

Its Bubba

It's safe to say there are PLENTY of people who want to help you. What these folks DON'T want to do is READ the original post to you. I think that's where JW is coming from.

[jw0914]

Just FYI "Help" is a forum designed for people who's phones are black screening and they are LOST as hell. Off Topic: On Tapatalk Category View>Lounge>Off-Topic Discussion. This is an area that applies to the ENTIRE forum and NOT just Razrs and many people may see it. It's not that this thread has NO topic. It's just that its a GENERAL discussion that can be applied to all devices.

Thanks for letting me know =] I didn't realize you guys had an off topic thread until your previous post lol

Thanks again :-)

[jw0914]

JW...What were you thinking my friend...

Wow!!!!

NO Comment...but to say we Don't READ before making any Major changes to Our Phones is NOT Correct...Can the process being confusing, maybe misunderstood Yes, I would have to Challange your comment about NOT READING...

If No ones wants to help me its Okay, but I knew that ahead of time before coming into this Forum...but that said, I have not experienced that behavior here so far on this forum...

Just thinking out Loud Sparky...LOL...

Its Bubba

I apologize if that's the way what I wrote came across to you. I wasn't saying that at all. Anyone will help you if you ask, and no one has a problem with that... most enjoy helping others and are why we're here on the forum.

What I said was in reference to individuals whom, say, go into a root thread, don't read the instructions on how to use the root utility, then post in the forum their phone is bricked, then through conversation it becomes apparent the individual didn't even bother to read the instructions before jumping right in. What then ends up happening is for the next half hour or so, sometimes longer, one or more members has to post the instructions one at a time to make sure the individual is doing it correctly.

I'm not referring to people on the forums whom need help, that's what forums are there for, that's what this forum is here for. Members on this forum like being able to help out other members, whether it be an amateur with no experience or an expert with a whole lot. I'm only referring to the select few, a small percentage, whom, for whatever reason, don't read the instructions given or don't follow the instructions given, then expect everyone to clean up a problem that was completely and wholly unavoidable.

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk HD

[tucstwo]

Thanks for letting me know =] I didn't realize you guys had an off topic thread until your previous post lol

Thanks again :-)

Welcome to randomness, a "secret place"

[jayrod]

I'm not sure that I have been granted with the sufficient amount of likes that this thread deserves!

[jw0914]

I'm not sure that I have been granted with the sufficient amount of likes that this thread deserves!

Lol thanks :-)

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk HD

[Brutus06]

Like Tucs has said, we are a family. Well sometimes you have to give the tough love. People with true issues get frustrated when majority of the problems that are being resolved are due to not reading. If the Dev spend the time to create at the Rom, Utility, etc.. the members using those should show the respect to take the time to read and follow those instructions. I really don't understand how reading is such a hard thing to do on a forum. I thought reading is one of the main ideas of a forum...

I have bricked my phone before because an important step was missing from one forum (different site, before I found this one) I read which I found out after being bricked by reading another forum (on here). I didn't expect one person to fix the issue for me, but I did appreciate the guidance to the right tools and help along the way. And when I say help I don't mean holding my hand the entire time, more like tips. Holding someones hand doesn't give them the room to learn more about their phone. Honestly I didn't have much experience with flashing FXZ files until then. I'm glad that I bricked my phone for that experience. PS Thanks to
Sami!

[johnnyfrost]

deleted

[jw0914]

.

[jw0914]

Interesting thread...considering the person that started it kept posting in the OG Razr threads about the root exploit for the HD (more than once).......talk about not reading things or causing people issues....

If you're going to rant and point fingers about not reading OPs, threads, etc. correctly..make sure to be ready to take a look at yourself as well, and that you haven't been part of the problem to begin with.

I do agree that people need to slow down and read more..just interesting that someone that was part of the problem started this thread.

You're absolutely right, I did do that. I made a mistake and didn't realize there were separate forums for both, and it took a day or so for someone to say something to make me realize that. Once it had been said did I feel like an idiot, sure lol but it was an honest mistake. I'm sure you know what that's like since I know you've done the same thing at some point.

With regards to pointing people to the root thread I did for the HD, the only people I've ever sent there were people whom had an HD. If they happened to post in a 912 forum, as a member did a few days ago, then a reply I sent them did have a link to my HD root thread because of the software links that were on the page (RSD Lite and XML files).

If you want to criticize my post, by all means. But obviously you have a problem with me for whatever reason and you can either be mature and PM me about it, or you can continue your immature passive aggressiveness which makes you appear foolish. I make mistakes like anyone else. I own up to my mistakes, I learn from my mistakes, and I apologize if my mistakes caused someone ill feeling. But attempting to insult me by trying to turn an extremely relevant thread into your personal passive aggressive problem solving arena is not the way to go.

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk HD


Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk HD

[johnnyfrost]

deleted...since i'm immature.

[jw0914]

I read most of the threads on this site and its funny how when someone criticizes you they are being "immature". I'm not attempting to insult you. It was just interesting to see a very long post telling people to read carefully come from someone who kept pointing people with an og razr to the hd razr root and probably causing more than one person to be confused. I watched that thread when it first came out and you were posting links to the HD root in the og razr forum. I'm sure more than one person tried to root their og razr with the hd exploit. obviously i don't have proof but its likely someone ended up posting in a thread or going into chat asking for help after following your link. And yes after a day or two you realized your mistake and it was corrected. But still it validates the point of making sure you read before doing.

I don't have a problem with you. I don't know you. I just get a chuckle out of all the irony and several hypocrites on this site. And seeing this thread, started by you, I had to throw in my two cents about making sure you are reading/posting correctly.

And your thread is in the off-topic section of this site so....where is it "extremely relevant"? You started a discussion that people should read OPs better and follow directions. I simply pointed out people should also take care about posting "solutions" that may not be solutions.

+5 points for using the phrase passive aggressive twice in one post. You don't see that phrase on the web much these days.

You're more than welcome to harbor any opinion you wish to harbor, but don't mistake your opinion for fact, nor try to pass it off as so.

When and where did I ever point someone with a 912 to a 926 method? I'll expect the posts to be copied and pasted within your next replies, if not, I'll be filing a complaint with administrators. That's a hefty accusation and a reputation on here is all you have. So I and everyone will be awaiting the proof to backup your accusations.

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk HD

[BytecodeMe]

Please, lets keep this thread on topic.

Being a dev, and dealing with many posts like this in my "career" lets say, there have been some times when I've just about blown my top. Because its been mentioned before or its a known issue, its in the OP etc. I've found things generally work out better for everyone if I keep my cool and help the guy anyway, whatever I think of this persons situation. I don't think it's understood that devs don't have to support what they make at all, they can make an OP with just a link and leave it there. There is absolutely no obligation once a thread is up for the developer to post again. And I think too many people take for granted that devs spend their time helping them with things that they've done a million times, is in the OP, has been mentioned. It get's tedious frustrating, repetitive.

For me what makes it all worth it is when I get to talk to somebody with potential, somebody who wants to learn and has the prerequisites do so quickly and easily. I've already taught a few, but only one has really come to any results.(You know who you are) To me THAT makes all the questions and complaints all worth it, to be able to help somebody who legitimately wants to learn, they way other devs HELPED me. And yes, if you have intermediate-advanced knowledge of how to use a computer and want to learn about Android, PM me, I'll tell you what I know.

[johnnyfrost]

deleting comments because its not worth it..........

[SamuriHL]

Since this has now been turned into an actual topic I'll chime in here. I have a unique perspective on this topic. Having written the house of bionic and helped literally thousands of people, I can tell you that it is a fact that many people are too lazy to be bothered to read even basic instructions. Then when they inevitably screw up their phone, they panic and start harassing everyone they can to fix their mess immediately.... Because, you know, they need their phone ASAP. Iow they shouldn't have been doing stuff to it in the first place. This is NOT about n00bs. I actually find that most n00bs are very cautious and will ask 100 questions before ever jumping in. I find that the so called experienced users are the worst with this. Thinking they know more than they do, they jump in without bothering to read, skip steps that they feel weren't necessary, then blame everyone but themselves when it doesn't work. Oh and that's the response I often get when they ask for help.... It didn't work. That's very useful when trying to help someone.

OK rant over. Now let's get constructive. For the house of bionic I spent a lot of time putting together a faq of basic info and step by step instructions. The very top of the house of bionic thread tells people that if they fail to read or ask something that's covered in the faq, they will get no support whatsoever. I put an enormous amount of time into writing the HoB. I worked on usability issues to make it a more bullet proof, simpler process. Nonetheless, you are screwing with a very expensive piece of equipment and things can and do go wrong. The least you can do before undertaking a complex process is take a few minutes and read through everything. If not, you're making two bad assumptions... First that you even know the process at all. Second that you know what to do if something goes wrong. The time to read is not when you screw something up and are panicking to fix it.

Now to bring this back to reality. People don't read. People make bad assumptions about what they know. People get themselves into situations they shouldn't be in. That is what this community is about. I may berate people with my sense of humor when they get into these situations, but, we must be willing to help anyway. Save the lecture until after they get their problem solved. Help them learn from the mistake. A little gentle ribbing is fine once you've pulled them out of the fire, but, we do have to help them. The gentle ribbing Imo is the consequence. I berate people, not in a mean spirited way, as a lesson that laziness or overconfidence has a price. You want to jump in and not bother to read? OK. I'll still help you, but I'm gonna do so while giving you a hard time about it. Some people hate my policy. Others recognize it for what it is. Overall, even the ones who get super mad about the manner in which I've helped them come to realize two things... That I gave them help and that if they bothered to read in the first place they wouldn't have needed it. Is that not the point and lesson here?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk HD