20 replies to this topic

[arcanexvi]

Let me just lead in with you all can blame Roo for pushing me into creating this thread. That said, most of you are not going to like what I have to say here. Put on your flame retardant suit if you would like. My posts in response to "I don't think this is right" will probably be met with not-so-kind responses. You've been warned.

This thread is intended to shed some light on why warranty fraud hurts us all in the long run and explaining a little about what you're doing if you don't realize it. I have little to no compassion for people that destroy their own phones and use the warranty system as an escape from the cost of a new phone. This applies not only to Motorola but all manufacturers.

1) Replacing your device due to any failure under anything but normal usage is fraud.
- To elaborate further if you're installing an update from this or another website. If you've installed a custom ROM from this or another website. If you're installing anything through any means other than directly via VZW OTA or the market (and even some of those items), you've already voided your warranty. Chances are if you're a member of this site, you fall in this bucket of users and at this point it legally doesn't matter what happens to your device. You're legally SOL.

2) You're screwing the community as a whole. The millions of dollars spent on replacement warranty devices increases the cost of the insurance, the services, and the devices themselves.
- You may think that your one device won't make a difference. Technically you're right if it were just you. However, that mentality throughout a large user base has costed VZW and manufacturers millions of dollars in customer service hours and replacement units. This translates to higher prices in the end for everyone and far more strict guidelines on what we agree to use our devices for in our terms of usage and far more secure devices being built to keep us out.

3) Over the years you've cost us locked bootloaders.
- The primary reason bootloaders are locked is to make device development harder and deter people from screwing with their system. Because of the reasons above (read: cost) they don't like the end user tampering with the system. It also makes their fail rates look artificially much higher than they are in reality due to all the exchanges which makes for some bad press as far as reliability is concerned.

4) Simply rooting your device voids your warranty.
- Yup. Believe it. At this point you're asking to go deeper into the phone than the designers ever intended. By freezing, deleting, modifying, etc any of the system that you normally can't access you've voided your warranty. They warranty the system they ship to function properly. If you tamper with it it's your own fault. There's a reason they keep trying to make it harder and harder to gain root. You're not supposed to be there and that's why "exploits" have to be used to get there.

5) The "The Nexus devices are unlocked" argument.
- Yes. They are. By choosing to unlock their bootloader and/or root their devices, they've voided their warranties as well. Period.

6) The "But my issue is hardware related not software related" argument.
- Grey area. I fall on the side of still doesn't matter. Many of the modifications we're making to our systems and flashing the memory as many times as we are goes well beyond normal function of the unit. Overclocking, custom radios/ROMs, etc can cause hardware to fail. Still your fault.

7) The "Physical damage" argument.
- Here's where I side with everyone else. IF (and only if) there was truly an accident where you dropped/lost/spilled on/submerged your phone I'm with everyone else in exchanging my phone under warranty. This ONLY applies in cases where the phone was still functional before it was broken. If you're intentionally breaking/losing your phone so that you can do a warranty exchange on a bricked device you fall into my hate list.

8) The "I give them enough money" argument.
- Boils down to this. You signed an agreement to pay them a certain amount of money for a service they're obligated to provide. It doesn't matter how much money you're paying them. You're still going against the contract you signed and agreed to when you bought your phone and signed up for service.

What this all really boils down to is please don't do warranty exchanges for modified units. It hurts the community as a whole. You signed a contract when you bought your phone and signed up for service. This contract is a legal document and covers how you use your phone and its legitimate usage falls under that umbrella. Verizon/Motorola/Any other manufacturer will fully cover any normal usage of the phone under that umbrella of usage. Your decision to go outside that boundary voids your warranty. Your decision to go outside that boundary also technically makes you ineligible to receive extended warranty protection from VZW (and most other sources). Perhaps one day they'll offer a service to cover the percentage of us that want to fool around/test things/run custom ROMs but unfortunately today is not that day. If you do brick/damage your phone via your own doing please accept responsibility for it and get it either repaired or replaced on your own dime.

/endrant

[xiogua]

Cool story bro, but I agree 100%.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Roo]

First off let me just say, thanks for trying to blame this whole thing on me! If I start getting hate mail, I'm gonna be so mad! (Even more mad than you had to be to write this, so fair warning!)

Anyway, this was more than worth the wait. Another very good read as far as rants go! I think you have made a lot of good points here, and I think it will shed some light on some issues. If more people realize how much they are actually costing us as a whole, it would inspire them to think twice before submitting a fraudulent insurance claim. I completly agree that there are some instances where someone is more than warranted to submit a claim to insurance. However, it is almost impossible not to know the risks you are taking by doing anything past (and including) rooting any device. I think if someone is not willing to deal with the consequence of doing these things, they should reconsider doing them in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, it was another great opinion read! Though I do have to say it was not as brutal as I was expecting

[CtrlAltDeath]

Well said....its a sad day when things like this need to be spelled out to people.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[ka1z0ku]

I agree. All of these customizations should be done at the users own risk and not at the expense of Moto or any other manufacturer, like you said it only bumps up the cost for the rest of us. Good thread, arcanexvi.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk

[_base2]

Can I *LOVE* this instead of just like it?? You have the support of EVERY member of the android community that is a TRUE MEMBER of the COMMUNITY. Not all people fall into that category, unfortunately.

Thanks for voicing your (right-on!) opinion!!

[raijin32]

As much as it might pain some of us to admit it, Arcanexvi is right on all points here. Upon debating my first root and before I learned about fastboot and RSD I figured if something went wrong I'd just show up at my local Verizon store with some BS story and get a new replacement phone. I'm glad it never came to that because I've come to realize how that mindset would've harmed the community which includes members here I've come to regard as friends.

If you're new to rooting and flashing...from one noob to another. Take the time to read, research and ask questions before taking the plunge to avoid putting youreslf in a situation where you're debating taking the phone back. Chances are the info you need to bring your phone back from the dead is on the site. This'll save you a trip to Verizon and from Arcanexvi's wrath.

[Nubia1]

Ummm I concur 100%. Play at YOUR OWN risk!

Thank you for your rant, and I would likewise think that most of the membership of this site would agree.

Bill C

Sent from my DROID RAZRMAXX using taltalk

[DonDraper]

If I worked at Verizon, Roo could probably bring me a phone bent in half into an L shape, and I would still exchange it for her.

[Roo]

If I worked at Verizon, Roo could probably bring me a phone bent in half into an L shape, and I would still exchange it for her.

Well rest assured, I would never take advantage of a situation like that Plus I wouldn't even had the balls to mess with my phone in the first place if I didn't have my trusty dusty X on stand by just in case!!

[Greaser]

Perfectly written, 100% agree, the mentality of "I will do what I want and they'll do what I say because they owe me" is terrible, and that mentality is partly the reason the world is what it is today.

Sent From My Rooted RAZR MAXX 6.12.174

[Droid2drummer]

I don't know how many times I've brought this up... very very true..

8-)

You've been tapped by the Drummer...

[JBeXX]

Excellent rant. Agree 110%. I hope some of the newer members to the community read this and I hope it sinks in to even just a handfull.

[got556]

Bravo man. Spot on!

[shizumie]

100%. I love how every new phone i get from vzw the ins deductible goes up, not so much because of cost of phone but more so stuff like this. And what's worse, i have read many (HELP I'm screwed) threads that end up with a solid fix to get a reply of, already filed insurance claim.... WHAT?! don't ask for help if you can't wait 5 min to get a response before you file illegal, fraudulent claim!

Although yes this has been said before many times, still a well written rant, lol. Also good info for those new to the community!
sliced by my Razr on Tapatalk

[DarkestSpawn]

Totally 100% agree. Great write up and thanks for taking the time to post this. Not saying this will help those that have that mindset, as I think its to late to save those kinda people, ESPECIALLY if they came from i*hone...

[cynnar]

Well said!!

When I first started reading this post I though that my thoughts would be different, but I was wrong they are the same.

I have found that with some patients and reading I can fix my phone myself. Because of this I have never used warranty on smartphones, if I've ever used warranty.

I hope that this post will change some minds, unfortunately most of those people really don't care about anyone but themselves.

[UrbanDroid]

I agree 100% as well. I may be new to all of this, but I (as most have stated) have read and reread to make sure what I am doing is correct before it is done.
Thank you for spelling out exactly the things that should be shared with every person that owns a mobile device. Very well stated.

[JungleKing76]

I fully agree that if we choose to mess with our phones, we should take responsibility and not try to pull the old "I don't know, it just broke" scam.

However, the one issue I don't necessarily agree with is the cost of the phones. Apple started selling the iPhone and the cost is based on the fact that they have to cover the cost of manufacturing the phones themselves in addition to developing the OS, with a profit of course. So when android was first coming on the scene with smart phones the consensus was that the phones would sell for half the amount of iPhones since Google offers the OS for free and the manufacturers only have to worry about hardware.

However, instead of offering phones at a much cheaper price tag, Motorola, HTC , LG , and Samsung decided to just follow apple's lead with pricing since consumers were obviously willing to pay $200 and up on contract. So, I do think there was a little bit of greed involved with selling android devices for the same cost as an iPhone when the OS is given to them. I don't know if I agree these companies lose millions on replacements considering they already make a significant profit to start with but in the end that does not matter.

We all know the cost and willingly pay for the phones so any changes made are our own fault and no excuse out there is good enough to file a false claim.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Xparent Purple Tapatalk