42 replies to this topic

[dccoh]

Dunno why you guys bitc$%#g about. All the phones who are soft bricked and replaced by Verizon get sent back to Motorola. Motorola will inspect the phone if any hardware malfunction then return phone to stock. Then sends it back to Verizon to be used as a FRU. Yes it's lots of work and money spending for Motorola and Verizon but its part of business. When I worked in the cellphone business, I've seen many customers don't know how to turn on their phones. Imagine those customers calling Verizon cs. Verizon would send them a replacement and take their working unit and pass it along as a FRU.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Comparing a customer that doesn't know how to turn on a phone to a customer who roots/hacks/flashes their phone might be considered a poor comparison. My neighbor has property insurance and was robbed recently but that doesn't mean I should go help myself to his things while he is at work since I know he is covered.

I'm sure these phones get sent right to Motorola and are re-flashed without issues, but this cost isn't magically absorbed. I'd love to see the insurance change to $99 for a replacement to $99 per hardware replacement and $150 if its due to hack/flash/mods.

[trikotret]

These arguments are pointless and not worth it. We can all go on. Its simple. There are 2 types of people in this matter. Either you buy a retail replacement or get a replacement from Verizon. Whether you and i agree to it or not. We can't tell people what to do.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Nanniepoo]

You don't think that if people actually owned up to their mistakes it would ease things between the dev community and the OEMs? There's a reason that Moto is releasing their developer edition hardware without warranty. People think they're so entitled to people cleaning up their mess they'll cause hardware damage (microwave, driving over it, etc) in order to get it replaced.

I have no idea what percentage of phones sent back are due to modding/hacking compared to ones with legitimate defects, but as dccoh mentioned, that cost doesn't magically go away, and it shouldn't be part of "business". It's basic honesty. I have no problem "working the system", complaining to get extra perks, etc. I had a legitimate issue with my home AT&T service and complained enough to get a free box and free movies monthly. I'm currently trying to get Moto to fix my Xoom as it hasn't worked correctly since I purchased it, and I'll keep sending it back until they get it right. If I had modified it first, I'd own up, as we all should.

[trikotret]

There you go Motorola releasing a developer edition without warranty. is that legit. They should at least honor warranty for hardware defect and not bricked devices. Cuz Ill guarantee you one thing, if the boot loaders are unlocked, no one would be bricked. Cuz our great community developers out there can help unbrick a device without moto's help. Like I said these arguments are pointless, cuz I am willing to bet that 90% of the crackflashers or whatever you want to call them will go to Verizon for a replacement. the other 10% will stick with their out the upgrade path device or buy a new one. It is what it is and no matter how long you guys preach, things will never change.

[Nanniepoo]

I definitely agree with you that basically no bricks would occur with an unlocked bootloader...but it's going to be hard for the OEMs/carriers to listen to us when they're already busy repairing the mistakes of those who choose to get it replaced.

And I know my complaining won't change anything, but since it is a business, and Moto knows there will legitimate and illegitimate replacements, they factor that into the cost of their phones. So you're welcome to everyone who has decided to get their bricked or buggy phone replaced, as I paid for part of your replacement when I bought my phone. Actually all of us here bought you a replacement phone because you couldn't own up.

[jtelander]

You have some issues dude. Coming on a forum calling people morons. You must feel very tough. This is the reason for a warranty. When your phone has an issue you return it. To me it's very smart. But thanks everyone else for your great input. I've decided tomorrow when I get the replacement that I'm going to try spchicks rom

I notice that the owners/administrators have not weighed in on the actions of this person who is also a board moderator.

Should we presume that the owners of this site support this behavior?

[STiK]

I gave up caring if people conduct warranty fraud long ago. Over the years I have seen people who seemingly are against this sort of practice just to find out later that they do the same thing. So I say "DO WHAT YOU WILL"

*Cheers*

[Brad92]

There's a difference in a warranty if you screw the phone up or the phone hardware just stops working. For example, if the speaker stops working, that's a hardware issue, or the screen gets dead spots. If the phone won't boot because you borked an install, that's your fault.

Its just like a vehicle. If you install an exhaust and your a/c goes out, how is that even related? It should be fixed under warranty. But, if you install a sound system and screw up the wiring and your head unit dies, that's your fault.

X

[iDroidGuy]

To end this thread, I've gotten my replacement. The phone had black ink spots on the screen when I got it, the data issues were there since I got the original but progressively got worse. So we can stop calling it fraud and call it procrastinating. Now locking the thread to not upset anyone else.

Sent from my Soldiered up Razr Maxx

[superrelaxx]

To end this thread, I've gotten my replacement. The phone had black ink spots on the screen when I got it, the data issues were there since I got the original but progressively got worse. So we can stop calling it fraud and call it procrastinating. Now locking the thread to not upset anyone else.

Sent from my Soldiered up Razr Maxx

The black ink spot thing is common to all razr's just so you know...

[jamRwoo]

Not all of us can be bastions of morality, and if we were, who would the paragons self-righteously foist their beliefs on? ;-)

At any rate, I've never understood why some people lose sleep over things that don't affect them, but perhaps I'm too laidback (and trikotret too).

As was previously pointed out, if the bootloaders were unlocked, significantly fewer phones would be bricked so that's a sort of "manufacturer's defect"--an intentional one, at that--so I think an argument could be made on those grounds. That being said, those saying the costs aren't magically absorbed (and then passed onto the consumer) are correct, and I don't agree with people who run their car over their phone or drop it into a lake and then try to abuse the warranty. But I don't think this is comparable to my changing the software configuration of MY phone, which then bricks due to the intentional efforts of the manufacturer to prevent me from customizing MY device. But, I digress...

I don't suppose there's a CM9/AOKP comparison thread? Do I understand correctly that CM9 does not correct DOB? (Data-On-Boot...I'm making up my own acronyms now...whatchagunnadoaboudit? xD)

[jimgfitzgerald]

Please do not file fraudulent warranty claims. That only increases cost for the rest of us.

[jamRwoo]

Please do not file fraudulent warranty claims. That only increases cost for the rest of us.

Most certainly...but the question at hand, my friend, is what constitutes a fraudulent claim?

Hicksauce,

Don't tease me so. I'll definitely check it out. I guess I should do more reading and less yapping hehe. I just looked at the post...I coulda swore someone told me that you made an AOKP-based version as well...or was I dreaming about you again?

[beeryooper]

But I don't think this is comparable to my changing the software configuration of MY phone

meh...i'll bite and beat the dead horse some more. that's like getting a brand new dell laptop with windows 7, installing hacks and modifying the heck out of windows, and then when the laptop doesn't boot or work right because of the hacks you did, calling dell and saying "i want to return this because your product doesn't work". companies and manufactures (like moto) have the right to setup their hardware/software the way they choose, whether consumers agree or not. if you don't agree with moto's locked bootloader, don't buy a moto device. certainly don't buy a locked razr, hack it, and then when it breaks say "well i was trying to customize MY phone and now you have to give me a new one". one definition of fraud is "obtaining money or some other benefit by deliberate deception." if you purposly and deliberately modify and hack your razr and it breaks, you shouldn't get a new one through warranty........how much can a dead horse be beaten again?

[jamRwoo]

Beery,

I understand what you're saying, but with a Dell computer, I can always insert my Windoze disc and start over.

So where's the Windows disc for my Razr?!

As for your presumption about the rights of companies vs. the rights of consumers...You're right, the companies do have the right to setup the hardware/software as they see fit, but their right to prevent us from modifying their configuration is is not so well established. For instance, the iPhone Jailbreaking Debacle (

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) back in 2010. Which determined that we do, in fact, have the right to modify the software on our phones.

I realize that this does not mean that if I break my phone it is covered under a manufacturer's hardware warranty. However, since the manufacturers of these phones persist in their efforts to prevent me from doing that which I am legally permitted to do, resulting in my phone becoming "bricked" and unusable, I think it's fair to say that is their fault, not my fault. If, instead of replacing my phone, they wish to begin offering "debricking" services, that's quite alright with me.

Or they could include a boot cd, an external optical drive, and a "boot from cd" option in the stock recovery.

EDIT:

Additionally, if I somehow "broke" my computer via software modifications, that would not stop Dell from honoring the warranty on their hardware. How does installing Ubuntu on my Dell affect the performance of my harddrive or network card? It doesn't. So if those things break, they are still covered. Motorola, Apple, et. al. are essentially arguing that this is not the case, and by installing "Ubuntu" (i.e. a custom ROM) on my "PC" (i.e. phone) they now have no obligation to honor their obligation.

Using your logic, if you are on a rooted device that is working just fine, and the CPU in your phone suddenly explodes, Motorola is under no obligation to replace your phone. I highly doubt you'd be okay with that. Now, is bricking your phone and getting it replaced the same thing? No, not really, but it's (most likely) due to a manufacturer "defect" that it's bricked in the first place.

That is to say, if we had "unlocked" phones, bricks would basically be nonexistent, but I'll admit that my knowledge on the finer points of bootloaders, etc. is fairly limited, so if someone more knowledgeable wishes to correct me, feel free. xD

That aside, your "don't like it, don't buy it" argument is legitimate if you view the purchasing of a cell phone as entering into a contract of sorts with the manufacturer, in which you lose the right to a warranty if you violate certain stipulations. So, if I don't like it, I can go buy a phone from a company offering a contract I find more agreeable, exceptttt....all of the companies do this, effectively creating a collective corporate gangbanging of the consumer. Why? Cuz if they all do it, then none of them have to worry about replacing phones that have been LEGALLY modified by their owners. So yes, in the strictest sense of the word, replacing a bricked phone via the manufacturer warranty is indeed fraud, but the same companies are--in their own way--defrauding us...so I say we call it even. Until we get our boot CDs anyway.

TLDR: The amount of control phone manufacturer's/carriers have over our phones is borderline fascist.

[beeryooper]

Beery,

I understand what you're saying, but with a Dell computer, I can always insert my Windoze disc and start over.

So where's the Windows disc for my Razr?!

Very good points jam. Makes me think about this a little more. I didn't think about the fact if I root my device and the cpu blows up, they may not cover it. I suppose there are alot of similar scenarios. I guess in the end I just don't like to see people post on here that "oh i tried flashing this and now it won't boot, time to send it in for warranty". That irks me. Not that I advocate fraud, but that situation would call for an insurance replacement perhaps. With verizon I'd pay $100 and get a new phone. At least I'd have to pay for my mistake. These people expecting to get a new unit for free because of a hack....I'm against.