55 replies to this topic

[wrich73]

Yes this can happen BUT I had the ThunderBolt and also the OG Droid before that and there were a ton of custom kernels floating around for each device. I followed all the forums I could find for both phones. I would say the number of people that post about returning their Razr for insurance or warranty due to likely their own doing is easily 100 times what I saw over the years on other phones. In fact I am hard pressed to remember even one ThunderBolt user returning their bricked phone. If Moto is doing this to save money then I gotta say they are doing it wrong.

I picked up a Thunderbolt in June 11 to lock down unlimited data...

Please Login or Register to see this Hidden Content

. You had to have a working knowledge of basic adb commands, the right drivers installed, there were (and are) always precautions to take when flashing kernels or radios etc.. It was a lot of work compared to what needs to be done now. Don't get me wrong, Its great having Matt cranking out these automated bat file packages, MUCH better than having to adb shell it all, but at the same rate as things have become easier, the overall capability of the user has declined significantly. If someone can't restore the phone to factory settings with Matt's util 1.7/1.8 etc, how is he/she going to fare when it comes to mix/matching CDMA/LTE radios?

From my experience, its always the stupid ones that get the angriest, never donate to devs, and feel put upon if getting what they want takes more effort or intellect than face pounding the keyboard.
They don't read instructions, get mad when they F$ck their phones up, blame the devs, blame others, flame people in threads and go back to the store and try and get their money back or warranty claim a phone. I worked for a smaller regional cell company for about 6 months last year as a tech and towards the end I seriously wanted to choke someone. That's why you won't see unlocked phones....the dev community is too nice, and most people are too stupid/lazy to put forth the effort to know what's actually being done when you hit 1, 2 or 3, and VZW doesn't need to create unnecessary work for themselves.

If VZW starts selling unlocked phones, you can bet its going to be at full retail If not, the current leaked version of ICS (.215) is very polished, heck even the original ICS leak was worlds better than the garbage that was on the Thunderbolt out of the box.

[tucstwo]

Custom kernels can also potentially lead to hardware issues due to overclocks etc. I'm not a supporter of locked bootloaders but the primary reason that they're locked is to save themselves money. End of story. I do believe that we should have an unlock solution that forces us to completely void our warranty (or pricey insurance) if necessary to get it done. That's a sacrifice that many of us would happily take because we know the risks and are willing to fix our own devices (software problems). The assistance community here is strong but not all phones have the luxury we do here.

Why does unlock need to void the warranty? If it were unlocked and something went wrong we could easy peasy flash our stock system, boot loader, recovery you name it. There is no such thing as a brick when ADB and fast boot can readily flash every and any partition on our device. It makes our phone unbreakable. With an unlocked bootloader and open source firmware, there is NO SUCH THING AS A BRICK.

[iDroidGuy]

Why does unlock need to void the warranty? If it were unlocked and something went wrong we could easy peasy flash our stock system, boot loader, recovery you name it. There is no such thing as a brick when ADB and fast boot can readily flash every and any partition on our device. It makes our phone unbreakable. With an unlocked bootloader and open source firmware, there is NO SUCH THING AS A BRICK.

Not that it's a brick but manipulation in software can cause hardware to mess up. Such as overclocking. That can overheat your battery causing bad battery life. People could attempt to claim that. I think a warranty void is understandable if it's what's needed to unlock. I'm fine with that

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[tucstwo]

I'm sorry fit the multiple posts but seriously. The OEMs are locking the bootloaders to stop us from flashing our pants off and all they're doing is forcing our hand and crating more and more riskier software and workarounds. People aren't gonna give up, and they should recognize this. If they're really so worried about warranty/insurance claims they should unlock the bootloaders and allow us the easy way out when we brick. There is almost NO WAY to hard brick a device with an unlocked bootloader (granted open sourced with every partition out in the open) but if you do one thing wrong with a Moto device you can fubar your phone and some people may consider warranty/insurance. They are spitting the face by cutting off their nose. I freaking give up!

[wrich73]

Why does unlock need to void the warranty? If it were unlocked and something went wrong we could easy peasy flash our stock system, boot loader, recovery you name it. There is no such thing as a brick when ADB and fast boot can readily flash every and any partition on our device. It makes our phone unbreakable. With an unlocked bootloader and open source firmware, there is NO SUCH THING AS A BRICK.

Heh, accidentally push a radio from a different phone to your phone through adb and reboot...that will do it..

What you said makes complete sense and is true, but that only applies to people that care enough to learn how to do it. It sucks that the people that could really benefit from it and enjoy the added flexibility (I really miss speedtweak.sh and 2 way call recording..Imoseyon's stuff is amazing) miss out..
of course the option would be to make the unlocking extremely tedious, and no automation to do it.

[tucstwo]

Not that it's a brick but manipulation in software can cause hardware to mess up. Such as overclocking. That can overheat your battery causing bad battery life. People could attempt to claim that. I think a warranty void is understandable if it's what's needed to unlock. I'm fine with that

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Honestly man, how often does this actually happen with devices with unlocked bootloaders. Can you source me some actual info on this? Seriously? Someone who could not fix their device?

[tucstwo]

Heh, accidentally push a radio from a different phone to your phone through adb and reboot...that will do it..

What you said makes complete sense and is true, but that only applies to people that care enough to learn how to do it. It sucks that the people that could really benefit from it and enjoy the added flexibility (I really miss speedtweak.sh and 2 way call recording..Imoseyon's stuff is amazing) miss out..
of course the option would be to make the unlocking extremely tedious, and no automation to do it.

Why can't you reflash the correct radio? I've done many a radio flashes on my other, non Moto devices.

[tucstwo]

.

[Hero_Indeed]

I think it would be quite interesting to know the numbers in regards to warranty claims placed on handsets with locked and unlocked bootoaders. See how they really tally up when compared to the same handset after it us unlocked...assuming we are ever unlocked lol. In my opinion this community doesn't make up a big enough demographic for Motorola or VZW to make such a concerted effort to keep us locked out. But that still leaves the question unanswered.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2

[kendive]

Motorola has been talking about releasing a bootloader unlock tool for a while now. But VERY recently they've said that more info is coming soon. So let's say this DOES happen. Do you think the Droid Razr (CDMA) will be included in this fun, or will we somehow get screwed over? I have a feeling we will be out of luck, but I am no expert. Secondly, what will this mean for us, if we can unlock the bootloader? I had a Galaxy Nexus up until a week ago, and obviously the unlocked bootloader resulted in a huge variety of ROMs to choose from. Do you think this will happen for us? Will devs suddenly start developing more for us, and make bigger and better ROMs? Or will the activity kind of stay the same? Discuss.

I am pretty happy with the support we have now with the RAZR MAXX. I know unlocking the bootloader would probably give us more and still owning the TBolt it is fun with all the options we have.

[darkcypher6]

maybe i'm bringing this back from the dead, but I'd like to share my opinion. I sell VZW phones. In this economy it is very hard to get people to come in and buy smartphones which do not have very high margins. While it may cost the manufacturer next to nothing in mass production, these devices are very expensive to the business and do not yield much profit in and of themselves. Almost all of the profit is in the accessories that go out with them. It is a BAD day when a customer needs to return and exchange their "defective" device for the same one when they tried to root it and failed. Not only does it hurt my performance metrics it makes me look like a tool to my superiors because of the auto-assumption that I didn't correctly pair the right device to my customer, regardless of whether I did or not.
I understand the locked bootloader status by default, while not agreeing with it. I am glad that some manufacturers like HTC allow us to do with our devices as we please, but we as modders, hackers, whatever we call ourselves, we must first remember that the majority of people just buy into the hype of the next device that will rock their world. Marketing is designed to bring these people in. If you don't work in the wireless industry at the retail level then you probably can't relate to this. I agree that we pay money for a device that we believe is our own, but patents, payrolls, backhaul of wireless networks, etc. all play a key role into why we can't just do whatever we want with our devices. Sounds abysmal, right? Wrong.
Google puts out unlocked phones that we can do just that with, and if current new reports are correct, there will be mutliple devices giving us the ability to have just that. Too many people think that they have some inherent right to pay next to nothing i.e. $200 for a device that they will be able to say they can do whatever they want with. Carrier subsidizing makes that $700 phone cheaper for YOU. YOU don't have to pay $500 more dollars for your next superphone by locking into a 2 year agreement where YOU agree to pay X amount of dollars per month for the service. Everything comes back to YOU. If you don't agree to this model, then save your money responsibly like an adult and buy full rights to a device that you can do anything to, like the Galaxy Nexus or a good amount of the phones in Europe. Remember, Smart phones only began to gain popularity to the average Joe 5 years ago.
Some people here know that less than 1% of all smartphone users mod their phone and they are smart to. If you know me on XDA, then you know I am no idiot (disclaimer: not an expert either) when it comes to rooting, etc. and still I have co-workers who when they complain that their old android phone or tablet and I offer to upgrade their systems and make them more efficient, ARE APPREHENSIVE! People fear what they don't know or understand.
The greatest protest of all is to cancel your line of service and go month to month with an unlocked nexus device and deprive the carriers of $50 or more a month.
Technology is not for the faint of heart. If people were more willing to LEARN instead of be spoon-fed, then they would be better equipped to deal with more important things. Educate your friends, family, etc. on things. I do this with my customers and I have nearly ZERO returns or complaints with their devices. Be the expert, and as the Joker said, when you're good at something, never do it for free. Guess who else lives by this? THE CARRIERS!
If you agree or not, this is just as I stated at the beginning: an opinion.

[snives]

Dark, that is fine and all but they had announced that the bootloader would be unlocked by the end of last year. That was the only reason I was willing to go with the Razr instead of a Nexus device. It doesn't matter if it is in their best interest to unlock or not, we were suckered in by false advertising. If they believed the community didn't matter because it is so small they wouldn't use tactics like this to drive up the sales and lock us into contracts. I'm personally debating filling a complaint to various organizations demanding I be released from my contract penalty free as they have made no effort to uphold their end. I'm sorry if this kind of problem impacts you, but it is VZW you should be upset with, not the customers that were scammed. I have now waited over half a year to receive the device I paid for. How many other industries get away with sending everyone a similar, but still wrong, product and never trying to do anything to fix it? The only reason they get away with it is general user ignorance. If you bought a new house and found out they filled the garage with concrete before they let you move in, wouldn't you be upset? Sure you can still park on the road and walk in, but now you're stuck parking outside and getting hail damage that the insurance gets stuck paying for.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[darkcypher6]

Dark, that is fine and all but they had announced that the bootloader would be unlocked by the end of last year. That was the only reason I was willing to go with the Razr instead of a Nexus device. It doesn't matter if it is in their best interest to unlock or not, we were suckered in by false advertising. If they believed the community didn't matter because it is so small they wouldn't use tactics like this to drive up the sales and lock us into contracts. I'm personally debating filling a complaint to various organizations demanding I be released from my contract penalty free as they have made no effort to uphold their end. I'm sorry if this kind of problem impacts you, but it is VZW you should be upset with, not the customers that were scammed. I have now waited over half a year to receive the device I paid for. How many other industries get away with sending everyone a similar, but still wrong, product and never trying to do anything to fix it? The only reason they get away with it is general user ignorance. If you bought a new house and found out they filled the garage with concrete before they let you move in, wouldn't you be upset? Sure you can still park on the road and walk in, but now you're stuck parking outside and getting hail damage that the insurance gets stuck paying for.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Which is why there are return policies for 30 days. Basically it's a lesson learned that if they don't release what you want within 30 days, take it back.
I disagree with you about the sales tactics employed. There are not high margins on a smartphone, so I can see less than honest marketing targeting a demographic, i.e. android enthusiasts who root, etc. in order to get an extra dollar. Many businesses have changed from consumer-friendly to only caring about their own profits.
At least we don't become zombies like Apple fan people. They pony up lots of money to buy the iPhone which hasn't been innovative since 2008.

[Brad92]

I'm pretty sure Verizon's return policy is 15 days

[wyld]

I'm pretty sure Verizon's return policy is 15 days

I thought it was 14 days now? Lol

Sent from my DROID SPYDER using Tapatalk 2

[Brad92]

Wow... that was a fail. I meant to say 14 haha