221 replies to this topic

[llawen]

Folks are hurting. I know some people that just cannot afford another bill. But they make more than 10 k so they must get insurance or have the IRS take their returns. They are struggling to put food on the table and clothes for kids. Where is the help through Obama care for them? There not. They will just pay the fee. They can't afford 1400 a year for even government insurance.

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[welsalex]

Well isn't that the republican standpoint? Better yourself as an individual?

Sorry didn't finish. Shouldn't you rely on yourself then? Work hard and get a better job where you can get insurance or make so much money you can afford it. That's what Republicans are about right? Small government, better yourself. So work with it and see it motivation to do better. The GOP says you can do better. Sorry, mad, I just see Romney supporters say do better for yourself then complain they shouldn't have to change.

[llawen]

This is from the Obama care bill

c) NOTIFICATIONOFNONENROLLMENT.—Not later than June 30 of each year, the Secretary of the Treasury, acting through the Internal Revenue Service and in consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human Services, shall send a notification to each individual who files an individual income tax return and who is not enrolled in minimum essential coverage (as defined in section 5000A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986). Such notification shall contain information on the services available through the Exchange operating in the State in which such individual resides. (d) CONFORMINGAMENDMENT.—The table of subparts for part III of subchapter A of chapter 61 of such Code is amended by inserting after the item relating to subpart C the following new item

Nothing about IRS taking our taxes right? Wrong. You must look very hard. See section 5000a of internal revenue code? You must go look at what it is talking about. There it talks about the fees.

My question is why is this so hidden? Could Obama be lying to us?
Download obamacare bill via PDF. It is 906 pages
Do a search for internal revenue service
That will take you to what I just posted.
Then download section 5000a of internal revenue code
It is a short document that has been amended.

I have provided you a map to see for yourself the IRS is handling the fees and will take you income tax return

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[llawen]

This is 5000a of internal revenue code


D) Indexing of amount In the case of any calendar year beginning after 2016, the applicable dollar amount shall be equal to $695, increased by an amount equal to— (i) $695, multiplied by (ii) the cost-of-living adjustment determined under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year, determined by substituting ‘‘calendar year 2015’’ for ‘‘calendar year 1992’’ in subparagraph ( thereof. If the amount of any increase under clause (i) is not a multiple of $50, such increase

Why is the IRS handling it? Why did IRS hire 16000 new agents? Why did Obama give them 500 million? They fully intend to take our returns.
There you have it and a map to see it in Obama care bill for yourself.

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[welsalex]

Folks are hurting. I know some people that just cannot afford another bill. But they make more than 10 k so they must get insurance or have the IRS take their returns. They are struggling to put food on the table and clothes for kids. Where is the help through Obama care for them? There not. They will just pay the fee. They can't afford 1400 a year for even government insurance.

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They get help via SNAP and Tanf. They can get medicaid for the kids. If the new system pushes everyone to pursure better employment, than isn't that what Republicans want?

[welsalex]

Nothing is hidden about this! I didn't have to read a 906 page document to learn how it all works. "Obamacare" is not perfect at all. Far from it. But our old system is far more flawed.

[marleyinoc]

Word.

[- JPB]

This is 5000a of internal revenue code


D) Indexing of amount In the case of any calendar year beginning after 2016, the applicable dollar amount shall be equal to $695, increased by an amount equal to— (i) $695, multiplied by (ii) the cost-of-living adjustment determined under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year, determined by substituting ‘‘calendar year 2015’’ for ‘‘calendar year 1992’’ in subparagraph ( thereof. If the amount of any increase under clause (i) is not a multiple of $50, such increase

Why is the IRS handling it? Why did IRS hire 16000 new agents? Why did Obama give them 500 million? They fully intend to take our returns.
There you have it and a map to see it in Obama care bill for yourself.

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Keep on picking and choosing your "facts", but someone is being dishonest about this, and I think it may be (shocking, I know) Republican supporters...

"...even the Republican staffers who calculated the number acknowledged that 16,500 is the high end of a range that could theoretically stretch as low as 5,900 using their methodology."
Source: Politifact.

[King Howie]

I love the arguments around who's "facts" are legit.

Here is a fact for you: the government has zero authority to provide food, housing, healthcare or anything else for people.

The Declaration of Independence states the following: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, driving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

What this means is, governments are created to keep people from infringing on your unalienable Rights.

Unalienable Rights are not given to you by any government, therefore government may not take away your unalienable Rights.

Redistributing the fruits of one's labor to another is enslaving the one who earned those fruits in the first place.

To think that without public charity there would be no help for the poor is asinine. Private charities have always been, and always will be, much more efficient in helping those who are truly in need and unable to provide for themselves.

And it is only those who are unable to provide for themselves who should be able to rely on the goodwill of others

[- JPB]

I love the arguments around who's "facts" are legit.

Here is a fact for you: the government has zero authority to provide food, housing, healthcare or anything else for people.

The Declaration of Independence states the following: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, driving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

What this means is, governments are created to keep people from infringing on your unalienable Rights.

Unalienable Rights are not given to you by any government, therefore government may not take away your unalienable Rights.

Redistributing the fruits of one's labor to another is enslaving the one who earned those fruits in the first place.

To think that without public charity there would be no help for the poor is asinine. Private charities have always been, and always will be, much more efficient in helping those who are truly in need and unable to provide for themselves.

And it is only those who are unable to provide for themselves who should be able to rely on the goodwill of others

Unfortunately for you, some of your "facts" appear to be based on a misconception and/or misunderstanding of our nation's founding documents. While some of your statements may very well be legitimate and true ("...governments are created to keep people from infringing on your unalienable Rights", "Unalienable Rights are not given to you by any government, therefore government may not take away your unalienable Rights", for example), the ones supporting your "fact" that " the government has zero authority to provide food, housing, healthcare or anything else for people" are simply incorrect.

A little history lesson for you:

The Declaration of Independence is NOT the document on which our laws are founded, but rather the justification for creating our own govenment and separating ourselves from the government of England.
The Constitution of the United States IS the document on which our laws are founded, and it clearly states that our government has the right to levy taxes for various reasons, including in order to promote the general welfare.

So, I'll... call your Declaration of Independence and raise you the Constitution...

Go ahead, read it yourself.

[King Howie]

I have read it, actually. Several times a year for well over 20 years. And I know the DoI isn't the law of the land. The DoI DOES indicate the FUNCTION of government. THAT is my point.

The Constitution DOES indeed say Congress can collect taxes to promote the general welfare. Key word: PROMOTE. Not PROVIDE. Big difference.

Article 1 Section 8 enumerates what government can lay and collect taxes for. Nowhere does it say anything about providing anything for either those who cannot support themselves nor the lazy.

[androidlearner]

I'm all for helping people who genuinely need it but most of the time and I put a real emphasis on MOST, it's the lazy people benefitting, not the actual needy.

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[Raw Dodge]

I've been hearing from friends in various industries. Hours are being cut, and full time positions eliminated in order avoid needing to meet the requirements for Obamacare. So the worker will end up with 2 part time jobs, and a penalty for non insurance. I'm also hearing many employer provided insurance will not be renewed, forcing employees onto Obamacare.. Way to go Obama..

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[- JPB]

I'm all for helping people who genuinely need it but most of the time and I put a real emphasis on MOST, it's the lazy people benefitting, not the actual needy.

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What is your source for this information?

[- JPB]

Anyone happen to notice that Wesalex's favorite poll watcher, Nate Silver, at the fivethirtyeight blog (or whatever it's called) pretty much nailed ALL the wins except for one senate race?

[sarcasm] So yeah, the polls were way off...[/sarcasm]

I'm sure Wesalex is above tooting his own horn (so to speak), so I thought I'd post the "I told you so." for him...

[marleyinoc]

Most of the budget is not going to "the unworthy." Now that the election is over maybe we can concentrate on real numbers and not the "boogie man."

Finding a solution for health care and the costs associated with it used to be a bi-partisan issue. Then, Obama borrowed liberally from the Republican endorsed Massachusetts solution and all of a sudden it's a rallying cry for everything wrong with America.

Healthcare was a good place to start as it can actually help people--even save lives. I don't think they went far enough and we should look harder at single payer but I've already said that. Perhaps creating a real free market that isn't diced up among different states could work too. The Affordable Care Act definitely needs tweaking either way.

Concentrating on corporate welfare and/or the richest among us paying the lowest rate they've paid in decades is a pretty good place to continue righting what really is wrong with America.

Oh, and Nate Silver is a Math Wizard. Nailed it.

[tucstwo]

I too am a Republican who does not support the bush tax cuts. These cuts are part of what force the dems to raise taxes. I just wish they'd raise the right taxes. Not all conservatives are rich and many are looking past the real problem. The real problem is not about how the government spends or doesn't spend our money, the real problem is how those funds are populated. Balance the tax brackets and get rid of the loop holes and things will suddenly begin to work themselves out.

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[Nnnnr12]

Just when I thought this was the one place I could escape politics...

[wabmorgan]

There is no escaping politics. NONE.

That being said.... SPENDING is the PROBLEM.

[tucstwo]

Just when I thought this was the one place I could escape politics...

Dude, welcome to America. A country where we have the freedom to choose what threads we choice on, or don't click on. C'mon , youre gonna complain about a group of adults debating like humans and not a bunch of wild animal babies?