20 replies to this topic

[dipsetdiplomat]

Motorola announces dev Droid Razr but what about everyone who already bought the device?

droid-life.com/2012/01/29/breaking-motorola-announces-razr-developer-edition-with-unlockable-bootloader-for-europe-u-s-variant-on-the-way-too/
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[xiogua]

Was about to post this. But yeah, why wouldn't they just unlock the ones that were already released? And to the devs here, could we possibly use the dev razr to unlock the regular razr?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[(TSON)]

i'm fuming rn

[xiogua]

i'm fuming rn

I know right, I love my razr, but I won't own another Motorola if they don't unlock the other Razrs and change their entire bootloader policy.

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[mattlgroff]

I know right, I love my razr, but I won't own another Motorola if they don't unlock the other Razrs and change their entire bootloader policy.

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Agreed. This is ridiculous.

[adauth]

I don't know if I buy that. Just seems incredibly stupid on Motorolas part. If it is true I think moto will unlock the bootloaders on all of the razrs.

[nix80908]

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[nickphx]

Motorola locked the bootloader at request of Verizon.. Complain to Verizon.

[HOGRIDER]

Motorola locked the bootloader at request of Verizon.. Complain to Verizon.

Then how can Verizon sell the Samsung and HTC phones that are unlocked?

[PillClinton]

Motorola locked the bootloader at request of Verizon.. Complain to Verizon.

False

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[dipsetdiplomat]

Motorola locked the bootloader at request of Verizon.. Complain to Verizon.

From what I have heard moto locked the bootloader so they could have a big advertisement push from Verizon.

[(TSON)]

It's very possible that they do have to run it by Verizon, since they are the forerunners for the Droid line. But there's the Droid Incredible line...

[Aixelsyd]

Motorola locked the bootloader at request of Verizon.. Complain to Verizon.

That is not entirely true. they have a part in it on CERTAIN device but there is alot more then just that. Fact is Moto does not want them unlocked either, never has and neve will. why do you think they come up with this BS setup. It is an option, but a BS one to say the least aand they have there reasons why they are doing it this way.

[Cruiserdude]

I agree, I wouldn't lay all the blame on Verizon. I'm coming from a Droid Charge, a Samsung device that never had its bootloader locked in the first place, no "adb fastboot oem unlock" required. It had its share of advertising when it was new, and look at all the push they gave the Thunderbolt when it was the only LTE phone out. So while Verizon may prefer it, they will allow even premier devices to have an unlocked, or at least unlockable, bootloader.

I remember sometime in Q1 last year Lowell (VZW CEO) mentioned that while they had a number of exciting devices coming out soon, Motorola enjoyed an almost "preferred-manufacturing-partner" status. Not sure exactly what he meant by that, but Moto had the original Droid, has had far more than anyone else, and seems to get the most marketing whenever they have a new device. Many of you probably remember the whole Bionic fiasco last year (Etna device, supposed to come out last spring, Etna got cancelled, the Targa became the new Bionic and it too kept getting delayed). Obviously, they failed to provide a high-end LTE device on VZW's timeline, and had nothing all summer, so its likely VZW was looking for a little appeasement.

Regardless, my thinking is Moto made the bootloader unlockable because that's what EVERYONE wants, but when VZW told them to lock it they didn't challenge it like the other manufacturers did, as its unlikely they ever wanted to unlock anything in the first place. From the press releases about the dev Razr, it seems that Moto thinks we would like to unlock our bootloaders so we can fry the cpu and damage the network. That may be possible but I doubt that's anyone's goal. I understand them not wanting to have to deal with bricks from people who didn't know what they were doing, but denying any sort of warranty just because you have the possibility of breaking it is outrageous. Most of us send our phones back to VZW for warranty issues anyway, a service most of us pay for, and they wouldn't deny warranty coverage for a hardware issue just because the bootloader was unlocked.

I understand both companies' feelings about people sending in phones they bricked, as this is an irresponsible and selfish practice. We as a community have to keep providing thorough guides for working on your phone and what should not be done, as well as ample warnings to not undertake them until you understand the guides fully. And also educating people that it is their responsibility to learn this, and if they brick a phone we can either get them back up and running, or point them to a service who can. I would expect the number of warranty returned bricks is decreasing, but even so I can't see it being a huge loss to either company. All they have to do is hook it up to a JTAG interface and put it back in the CLNR pool.

Whatever, I'm done speculating, sorry for the rant. I just hope that we can find some way to unlock the bootloaders on our existing devices, hopefully while still keeping our warranty, at least with VZW. If Moto doesn't come through, maybe Project Cheesecake will.

[arcanexvi]

Basically at this point it's come down to the following:

VZW doesn't like unlocked devices because it allows you to steal services (example: tethering) and generates an insane number of exchanges due to customers breaking their own units. I don't know the actual numbers but I do have several friends that work @ VZW in areas that matter. VZW does more exchanges for user-bricked (read: your fault) phones than most other individual hardware issues. In fact it's more than most of the hardware issues combined (excluding physical damage).

Moto doesn't like unlocked devices because people brick the phones and cause unnecessary warranty replacements for non-hardware issues.

(I'll leave my fraud rant out of this for those who do insurance/warranty exchanges on something completely your fault. This is the number one reason why we do not have unlocked bootloaders).

To mutually benefit each other, VZW gives a HUGE chunk of cash to Moto to keep the bootloaders locked on their phones and allows them advertising priority.

This also keeps Moto off of VZW's advertising $#!+list (read: they advertise the Moto phones and not the ones on their $#!+list). Ever wonder why you don't see many ads (if any) for the gnex, revolution, spectrum, rezound, etc but still see tons for the Razr which has been out longer? Note that before the rezound was unlocked you used to see ads for it and now that they've released their unlocking tool most of the ads have all but disappeared. You think Moto is footing the bill for most of that marketing? No.

WIth Moto hurting the way that it is right now (another $80 mil loss last quarter) they need that money from VZW to keep afloat til the google takeover happens. It'll be interesting to see what happens when that goes through. Google strikes me as the kind of company that'll be like "ok, we want to take care of our people" and the brand name that really launched android (sorry HTC G1 users, the OG droid destroyed you in sales and truly launched the Android brand on the world). Until that happens Moto is stuck following VZW's requests regardless of what they want to do. Even if they did want to unlock everything, they can't right now financially.

Whatever troll fanboys from other brands that poke through this forum aside, everyone here will probably agree that Moto has the best hardware quality across the board for any brand currently manufacturing phones. Antennas, radios, microphones, speakers, earpieces, construction, etc are all top notch on Moto devices. The only real knock people have against them is their screens. Which really aren't that bad anyway. People like to nitpick.

We, the rooting community, don't really represent a huge portion of the Android userbase but have a loud voice. Hopefully it ends up getting heard but I personally don't believe anything will change until that buyout goes through. Enjoy your phones. Maybe OPMOSH will make an impact and both parties (VZW/Moto) will loosen up their reigns. Until then, enjoy one of the most solidly built phones on the market.

My opinion/observations.

/endrant

[Roo]

Moto doesn't like unlocked devices because people brick the phones and cause unnecessary warranty replacements for non-hardware issues.

(I'll leave my fraud rant out of this for those who do insurance/warranty exchanges on something completely your fault. This is the number one reason why we do not have unlocked bootloaders).

Your "rant" above was a pretty good read, I would like to hear your thoughts about people doing insurance/warranty exhanges on user borked devices. When you say insurace/warranty exchange fraud your meaning like someone who bricks their phone, and claims it "lost" or they run it over with their car "accidentaly" on purpose to cover it up, right? I feel like Moto/Verizon has lots of ways to know if a phone is legit having problems or is something the user did (knowing full well that rooting and most modifications will void the warranty). I want to know how so many people (or at least enough it became a problem for Moto/Verizon) managed to get away with this. From my understanding Moto/Verizon is pretty strict about these things on a device that has been modified. I was not aware this was the main reason Moto locked bootloaders, I guess ya learn something new everyday!

[arcanexvi]

Your "rant" above was a pretty good read, I would like to hear your thoughts about people doing insurance/warranty exhanges on user borked devices. When you say insurace/warranty exchange fraud your meaning like someone who bricks their phone, and claims it "lost" or they run it over with their car "accidentaly" on purpose to cover it up, right? I feel like Moto/Verizon has lots of ways to know if a phone is legit having problems or is something the user did (knowing full well that rooting and most modifications will void the warranty). I want to know how so many people (or at least enough it became a problem for Moto/Verizon) managed to get away with this. From my understanding Moto/Verizon is pretty strict about these things on a device that has been modified. I was not aware this was the main reason Moto locked bootloaders, I guess ya learn something new everyday!

If Verizon realizes that your device is rooted they will fight you tooth and nail to no exchange that device regardless of what the issue is. However, the majority of the time you're talking to a low level tech/rep that doesn't know what they're talking about and will issue you a replacement device if you just play dumb. As far as my fraud rant... If you really want to hear it I'll post it somewhere else in its own thread so that people can don their flame retardant suits before reading it. I have little to no compassion for people that willingly void warranties knowing full when what that means then proceed to try to replace their devices that they've destroyed of their own volition. It will not be a kind thread. Nor will it be a thread that many people here want to read whether it's full of truth or not.

[Roo]

Goodness, your obviously very passionate about this issue. Have you had a bad experience because of people abusing the insurance system, or is it just in general because of the problems it causes for everyone else? I would still very much like to hear your thoughts on this subject. I think if more people knew what their actions were causing when they submit fraudulent insurance claims people would think twice before doing it. I wouldn't want you to get into any sort of trouble for posting such a rant though. However I do understand where your coming from, its next to impossible to be unaware that what your doing is going to void the warranty. If your not prepared to deal with it, then don't do it in the first place.

Even if you do manage to screw something up though, I've read at this point its almost impossible to actually break it beyond repair. I've got many threads and links saved in the event I do manage to bork something up, I can attempt to fix it myself! I'll keep an eye out though if you do decide to post your rantings one of these days

[SlammedDime]

Even if you do manage to screw something up though, I've read at this point its almost impossible to actually break it beyond repair. I've got many threads and links saved in the event I do manage to bork something up, I can attempt to fix it myself! I'll keep an eye out though if you do decide to post your rantings one of these days

That's just it... you may have done that, and so have a few others, and then there are the people that have been doing this long enough to work their way through it, but then on the other end of the spectrum (maybe more than 50%), you have people who use one of these 1-click methods to root their phone, then think they can do anything. Then they go and brick their device, have no clue how to get it back, come to the forums in a panic for help, get no where because they don't know adb from cmd, don't want to take the time to learn, then end up trying to exchange their device for a new one to screw up.

The real problem isn't the people who are careful and research and learn from mistakes... it's the carelessness of those who just want to 'do something cool' and end up messing it up for the rest.

[redls1]

Ive exchanged phones because the buttons on my phone were not responding or pushed in. I screwed my phone when rooting one time................

I spent the next 8 hours trying to figure it out and got it back up. I found it really hard to actually totally brick my charge. Never tried to exchange from a bad root
but issues with the phone in general.